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February 03, 2012

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Chris Jones

Great article. I do think we need to look at the issue of parents as the primary spiritual leader of their children and erase the concept of youth pastors as the source for theological training. A huge mistake in the modern church and a major aspect of the problems in teen culture.

Paul Sheneman

Love this post.

I want to affirm that theology is not merely a cognitive activity. Theology, if faithful to Christ, is a human activity (mind, body, passions), which you mention. So I'd add to the list of things to help youth be better theologians would be for our communities to pray, worship, and practice hospitality in Christian ways.

mike king

Hey Chris,

I certainly think that would be helpful, although, based on my experience, and data from national research (NSYR, Barna, PEW, etc), parents and adults are not engaging in robust, intentional theological reflection. The real problem here lies in the church overall, this is an ecclesial issue. There are many reasons why church communities don't engage in theological reflection - fear, cultural tool kits that lock in moral positions, non-openness to a dialogical environment, the embrace of the idea that a church community should be homogenous instead of diverse, and on and on.

Also, I think we need to explore what Jesus constitutes as "family" in the Kingdom economy, we need a shift to a broader focus of family in the context of our faith communities.

Chris, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts.

Peace,

Mike

mike king

Oh, and yes, I agree Paul

Chris Jones

Mike,

I agree with the research that indicates the urgent need for sound biblical teaching in church communities. We are rapidly evolving into a positive tolerance position in an effort to increase our numbers. The results are obvious in our culture.

Help me understand what you mean by "Explore what Jesus constitutes as 'family' in the Kingdom economy." Are you suggesting that parents are not the primary spiritual leaders of their children? Maybe I misunderstood that.

It might also be helpful for you to dig around in the latest statistics that show parents as the most trusted and influential in their children's lives. It wasn't even close. Church staff was far down their list.

Let's connect the dots of our positions. We both agree that sound biblical theology is lacking in most church communities. The results are clear in our current culture. I am suggesting that the best method to teach/model biblical theology is through parents, who God clearly mandated as the primary spiritual authority in their children's lives, and who are most trusted and influential in their children's lives. There is no doubt and the statistic support, teenagers who do best in their spiritual lives have parents who live out their faith at home and have another adult in their life who points them toward God.

We could also start an entire new conversation concerning the cognitive learning styles that are successful with the current generation of teenagers. They learn more about Christianity by observing than listening. Who is in the best position to model theology? Parents. Youth Pastors might get a total of one hour a week (national average) to spiritually influence a teenager. So should we expect spiritual growth when the youth pastor is seen as the primary source of theological training?

The lack of parental involvement in the spiritual aspects of their children's lives is the greatest factor in the over 65% of teenagers who make the decision to leave church after graduation. There are always the exceptions to this principle. But the stats are clear and offer an indictment to current youth leadership models.

Again, love this article, just pointing out the futility of great theological teaching without parent involvement.

Be blessed and keep up the thought provoking articles! You have a new fan.

Chris J.

Chris Jones

Also wanted to add a recent survey by The Barna Group that supports my position. It might help.

Quote from Barna article:"The more willing churches are to play the co-dependent role in this drama, the less likely we are to see spiritually healthy families and a generation of young people who grow into mature believers."

See entire article: http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/120-parents-accept-responsibility-for-their-childs-spiritual-development-but-struggle-with-effectiveness

Seth Vopat

Jesus often opened dialogue with parables that included common symbols from their everyday life. What are the everyday elements of youth God is trying to speak into?

Mike

Hey Chris, I generally agree with your position mostly because it has been the primary position I have taken for several years now. I just think the realities of ministry, the role of the church and faith communities, good practical theology and deep theological reflection is essential to adequately explore and respond to this issue.

Peace,

Mike

adam paul

really thought you were going to throw in a Tim Tebow reference in regards to success and Gods favor...

Mike

Matthew 12:46-50 (NIV)
[46] While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. [47] Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”[48] He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” [49] Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. [50] For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

How do you see this passage of scripture factoring into this discussion?

Liz

As a 20-something with siblings who are youth, I honestly think that theological discussion will be just that... discussion... meanderings of the mind... unless matched with an example of a person who actually lives their life with a kingdom mindset.

One Australian youth worker that I knew said that instead of addressing moral issues, just teach on holiness. I think this is a great concept but, from experience, as a youth and one who's worked with youth, it's sometimes hard to make holistic applications. I've been a part of such discussions and, honestly, while theological discussions are engaging, it is easy for the findings to remain "food for thought" and not for action unless confronted with a person who is a living, breathing example of what it's like to have a big-picture, kingdom mindset everyday.

Who is this? Someone who follows Christ in the midst of suffering, sees the value of suffering and presses into it, instead of wasting valuable time merely "enduring" until it passes. They/We need to see as many examples as we can of believers who aren't pursuing the materialistic, self-centered American Dream... not because it's en vogue, or because of self-righteousness, but because it is a life-long conviction of the Spirit. Selfless people who, despite upon first appearance seem to have nothing, very clearly have everything and whose unashamed confidence is in the Lord.

Obviously there are more qualities, but sadly these people are rare. And it is so easy for young adults to see through the facade of those who, in appearances, seem like this kind of person but actually are not. And when you actually meet someone whose convictions affect every part of their life, your own thoughts and convictions are immediately called into question. The Spirit uses them like the walking, talking word of God.

It would be ideal if these examples were their parents. But I think it would be severely limiting to think only of the benefit to the youth of being around such people. How could parents benefit from their example? How could the church? What if our youth workers and pastors took an even more holistic view and were also involved in encouraging/challenging this kind of conviction in parents, in churches?

Repetition, repetition. Students and parents have to see repeated examples of the aforementioned type of people in churches today. The church needs to see them.


Paul Sheneman

In line with Mike's question, I'd like to throw this older article by James Hampton and Mark Hayse into the mix. I think they reveal some of the complexities of discipleship and families. http://www.youthspecialties.com/articles/a-different-view-of-family-ministry

Their perspective on the "First Family of Faith" is gleaning off of Majorie Thompson's "Family the Forming Center" who is working out aspects of Barth and Edward's ecclesiology. Linking that with an appropriation of Bonhoeffer's theology of formation makes for a sold point that the task of raising better theologians is an ecclesiological responsibility first.

mike king

Great resources Paul, thanks.

Joe Davenport

Mike,

I didn't have time to read the other comments yet so this might be a repeat. Growing up in youth group I heard a lot about who Jesus was and who God was but not a lot of who I was, or who I had become because of them. Theology that teaches me who I am in Christ gives me a reason to live the new life I've been given. I needed a deeper reason besides just right and wrong to focus on Christ like living. I needed a more hopeful motivation. I needed day to day aplicable theology that told me just how much God valued me.

Jamie Roach

Great article and comments. There is so much I would like to comment on, but I think I’ll limit mine to the relationship between parents and the church. We miss the boat when we put parents on one side and the church (or youth pastors) on the other, which is one of the things I don’t like about the approach taken in Think Orange. We are in a better position to nurture our children’s faith when we place parents within the context of the church. Rather than thinking of parents/family as one color and youth worker/church as another, I prefer to think of parents/families as branches that along with other branches make up a whole tree (the church). What does this mean practically? Years ago I believed strongly it was the job of the professional youth pastor to disciple students. In recent years I’ve been telling parents it is their job to disciple their kids. A few weeks ago I was sitting in a living room with a group of people I call my church. I’ve lived life with most of these same people for the past 10 years (and some for more than 25). What I shared with my friends that night expresses the way I am currently thinking about Christian formation, parenting and the church. I shared, “We are the community where our children will be loved and will learn to love.” I believe it is the church’s job to disciple kids, if when you say church you picture a community of people practicing together worship and mission. And I believe it is the parent’s job to disciple their kids if, when you say parents, you picture a community of people practicing together worship and mission.

Mike

Thanks Jamie I think you are spot on with your comments. Well stated and because I know you - definitely lived out.

Erik Leafblad

Paul's language of oikos for the household of God's people is instructive in this conversation. It fits well with what Jamie has articulated. It doesn't allow for a bifurcation between parents and the church, but rather sees the biological family embedded in the family of God's new household in Jesus Christ. As such, the church doesn't then serve as a resource provider for parents, which only further promotes a consumeristic relationship to church. Instead, the church is the seedbed in which faithful germination for both parents and kids is cultivated.

mike king

Hey Erik,

Thanks for your excellent comments. I think the emphasis within the youth ministry conversation the last couple of years concerning the importance of parents for the Christian formation of young people has been a really important turn, but it is just the beginning of a deeper theological and ecclesial conversation that must happen.

Peace,

Mike

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